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economy events event drill event broken op

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#1
camaragustavo

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I just got back from a year-retirement, that time when these drilling events, that give us a lot of (good) myshop itens, began.

Just seems now, after a year, that the economy inside of the game is kinda broken. Everyone have hundreads of elixirs, anvils and so.

There's no point of buying mileage boxes and lvl up boxes anymore, for example. 

When it just started it was good and so (I remember selling amet elixirs for like 4k and a lot of people was searching for it), but now seems like no one is buying anything (not even these kind of itens). I'm afraid this will make people stop donating, making the game so easy for everything that you wont be necessary hunting bosses, quests and so.

Attr makes everything so fuxxxxx easy, people can hit up 1 million, and they can get unimaginable values from compounds with all these events. Even pvp seems broken.

And yes, thats good for players, we love this, but even us can see where it will go if it keeps going this way. These events really need a rework.


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#2
Aran

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Thank you for your input. I think you have good points. We will rethink about things.


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#3
jjiang29

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In my ideal trickster, all the consumables such as elixirs, nates, powders. etc would be attainable every other patch but be much harder to get than just in every other drilled box. I don't mind that we get free stuff from events but not everyone should be able to get hundreds upon thousands of such items. It really does drive down the demand for the consumables. Take this current event for example. Everyone will have hundreds of Nate's bottles by the end of the event which probably means that there will be no market at all for Nates in the next few months. I agree with your fear that it would also mean less donations. In my opinion, a good amount of the higher class of elite players are often times the people who exploit events and afk drilling the most. When you are able to have multiple drillers farming profitable commodities for you, you can often times just sell those items once events are over and in the ensuing months. My point in all this is probably this : Those with the means to sustain their upkeep in this game are usually the ones that need it the least.


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#4
Kita

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drill events needs to be limited to once every 3months, just for having a refreshing afk month.

ohh and drill events should almost always be only in cherry blossom map, it saves most players the trouble of navigating through a nest of people.

 

as for the excess of event items, to solve that is pretty easy.

have a refine event where rates are much better (makes players refine more items), same goes with compounding.

we use to occasionally have those events back in eTO, i wonder if we could also do that here.

 

another way is to make an NPC lottery which trades these event items for a random box.

said random box should contain a less economically destructive items, e.g. trade 1elixir for 1000 potions are good.

 

on a side note, the economy is somewhat more stable now than it was before, prices are stuck at their lowest possible price.

at least it gives new players some hope in reaching a higher place, with better equipments.


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#5
jjiang29

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I guess it can be a double edged sword. Low low prices for new players, not as profitable for sellers. The trick is finding the balance ^_^

 



#6
Rhemy

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Don't know if these events effects this but compared to eTO, I don't get to see alot of people selling quest items. Maybe too busy drilling up for boxes? Talked to a few people online and they seem to come to the same conclusion. I mean, I love searching for the quest items myself but there are times when I just want to throw my laptop over a cliff lol. So maybe use their farming driller accounts to drill for us lazy newbs? *w*

 

Oh also, I see alot of low level players selling one or two anvils for (what I reckon to be reasonably low prices) 500k, trying to make a quick buck, then I suddenly see a clearly experienced player selling it for 100-150k and hundreeeds of them. Funny things that happens with these events.

 

Loving the boxes cos of all the friend finders and ports though :D 
 


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#7
Bongohead

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I feel like problematizing the economy with the prices isn't enough.

 

We shold have in mind most of the events are aimed mostly to AFK drillers and this benefits the wealthiest overall (they are the ones that already have the pets, WT or 300 items and DA necessary to drill efficiently), as Haz noted, only that I'd want to add the fact that it's also the wealthiest irl the ones that can multiclient more, have more time to play, and besides they may be able to recharge MS points. 

At the same time, new/unexperienced/poor players have it way harder since they'd need to either spend hours/days drilling or saving for a driller pet (of course, they're new so hunting is also hard for them).

 

And there's also several people that naturalized these kind of events and are now spoiled and always expecting for more, plus it makes the players overall actually play the game a lot less, AFK drill leveling, getting items working a lot less (like spamming brooms to get Uniques or getting Amadas and Imperian Sets without having ever been to Harkon), and getting fuses like crazy to the point there aren't collectibles anymore.

 

On top of that, there's the problem that Gustavo mentioned of the characters being unbalanced. Powers can exploit Attribute to an extent they are the first ones to clear the hardest parts of the game (CT, Ed, Koiosu, True Chronos, etc.), and Hybrid Powers are probably the best class for PvP (as far as I know, the only thing keeping them on line is Magical Soul, which, well, is pretty messed up).

 

I do think it's totally awesome for free players to have access to items such as enhacers and MS/Gacha/Eggshop equips that were otherwise impossible or unsafe to get in eTO, but there's a lot of work ahead to make it an actually inclusive experience.

 

That is, if that's the server's intention. Of course, we've been told the "for the love of the game" part but we don't really know if this server's supposed to break the continuity with the money-making ideology of NTreev/Gamerage or not.

 

But a key part of all this is, the staff has been juggling with server stability issues, bringing new or recycling content, handling player requests and suggestions, etc., and sure, the server's not dead yet so they must be doing something good, but as far as I can observe, there's still no efficient way for them to get in touch with all the community and promote healthy debate for a better decision making, in order to get above these kind of discussions.


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#8
LordGahnome

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I'll comment on the economy later and why everything works as it does and what it does and does not help us do, but I'm tired right now, so I'd like to make a personal request to Aran or any other mods looking at this thread.

Please please please hear me when I say this. We don't NEED so many myshop boxes released every month. I know some people ask for things over and over again, and you want to let us pick some of the stuff, but it's just too much at once. There's always a lot of stuff I want from one patch and like nothing I want from the next one, but I'm not able to recharge or make enough money in game to get what I want as far as lol box items go. It's not that I don't like the variety, it's that it gets overwhelming. I have a lot of assets and I can donate a pretty fair amount to the server if I rlly want to, but man, there's just too much stuff. Take this event, for instance. You guys rereleased FOUR separate lvl 300+ myshop boxes, all with desirable items, and all at a high cost. I can't put together enough myshop to buy that many of each box when they all come out like that. What I'm asking is not that you release one myshop box per month, I'm asking that you release one myshop box from each level range per month. For instance, the esplendor and Ron lamp boxes have a bunch of variants. They cover lvl 190-340 if I remember correctly, so why not just those plus maybe something at the lower levels? Like 100-130 or something? Just release a few at a time so that those of us who really want something have time to react and buy what we want. This also helps to increase the value of equips and fuses because stuff will stay un-re-re-re-released for a little while longer. It's something I've been wanting you guys to do for quite a while but I think you missed my suggestion the last time I posted it :P

Anyway, goodnight guys
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#9
azinovo

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Good Points made. I agree that the GM's don't need to spoil the players. Sometimes not having everything makes the game even more interesting. All part of the hunt I guess :P .As for me, I will continue to donate as long as the server is still open. Happy Gaming everyone.


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#10
asnoobasme

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the hard truth is, everyone is exploiting the economy in their own way..  yes to gain the most out of it. as the saying goes; every man for himself. those who say that we shouldnt exploit drilling events are too, drilling in cherry blossom. isnt that the case? those who suggest that lvl 300+ boxes shouldn't be re-released so soon are also those people who are hoarding those lvl 300+ equips because they dont want their eqs to lose its value, at least before they're sold. am i not right (gahnome)?  drilling events, no matter what reward gm decides to give, will be exploited. maybe just a little suggestion; next time if we decides to release so much modifiers at one go, it is justifiable that we lower the price of those modifier in myshop too. i think it will make people regret buying them from myshop because theyre now almost free, and rich people with 10 accs drilling concurrently are stockpiling them to eventually sell them at a higher price, this is quite a serious problem now. lowering the price of item in myshop will help to reduce such exploitation. i too believe gm shouldnt give too much. for example with the number of nates i have now, i can never finish using them.. the repair powders and anvils will be used up faster so the amt is alright..We need to determine what kind of items/usables/modifiers should we give during events and how much. 3 nates per sarah box is too much imo. i will be happy with 1 actually. tbn, potions, friend finders, anvils  repairs and brooms are considered to be the lower tier items that people will be happy to get and can be given out in larger quantities while those tempering gems /nates/ w/g/ wgev /amethyst /store more permits/ boxes should only be given out in moderation. for example, they can be made exchangeable with 4-6 sarah tix for 1.

The class imbalance is drastic. this is caused mainly by attribute over-exceeding its correct limit. the only solution now is to alter skill formulas which i believe is difficult to do so.  skill rework or adding more new skills can only be part of your  imagination. 


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#11
Neal

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I agree on this one, seeing nate bottles and stuffs so cheap broke my heart a little XD I used to pay 1k MS each for nates, gems and stuffs and now I have too much of them rotting in bank and I'm not even trying to earn for one. Now even though I managed to get a good refine out of all my equips, it does not give the same feeling anymore.

I am actually disappointed that the poll results says to continue this boxes event. I feel like 1 month is enough of good stuffs already. Event like these is to me should ONLY be on the server anniversary, or big holidays like christmas and new year.

Also agreed on LordGahnome about MS boxes, we do not always need these myshop boxes in every patch. Instead of hoarding with tons of myshop boxes in one patch, I think it is better to spread them apart.

I like the older patches where usually the event give out some equips for the new players (rally head, pet exchange ticket, merc googles). Back then when I was just starting out, these items really helped me much more than the elixirs and nates. I used to be really excited when I get them free newbie equips. It does not really break the economy but still helps newer player to get into the game.
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#12
Scott

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We have to consider so many things about the events, not only the Myshop items, what about the brooms and the nikarium? So many items hard to get like uniques are overflowing the server and their prices only go down.



#13
Kita

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its actually a fair trade, the wealthiest gets more event items, true, but that devalues their inventory by a lot, they'd have no choice but to sell cheap.

 

on the other hand, the less wealthy players gets a moderate amount of event items.

yes they'd profit far less than when it was sparse, but the low price helps in compensating them for whenever they run out of stock.

 

as for the poorest of the players, these events can kick-start their assets somewhat, those who've gotten a handful of boxes can easily pile up a few thousand MS.


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#14
LordGahnome

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the hard truth is, everyone is exploiting the economy in their own way..  yes to gain the most out of it. as the saying goes; every man for himself. those who say that we shouldnt exploit drilling events are too, drilling in cherry blossom. isnt that the case? those who suggest that lvl 300+ boxes shouldn't be re-released so soon are also those people who are hoarding those lvl 300+ equips because they dont want their eqs to lose its value, at least before they're sold. am i not right (gahnome)?  drilling events, no matter what reward gm decides to give, will be exploited. maybe just a little suggestion; next time if we decides to release so much modifiers at one go, it is justifiable that we lower the price of those modifier in myshop too. i think it will make people regret buying them from myshop because theyre now almost free, and rich people with 10 accs drilling concurrently are stockpiling them to eventually sell them at a higher price, this is quite a serious problem now. lowering the price of item in myshop will help to reduce such exploitation. i too believe gm shouldnt give too much. for example with the number of nates i have now, i can never finish using them.. the repair powders and anvils will be used up faster so the amt is alright..We need to determine what kind of items/usables/modifiers should we give during events and how much. 3 nates per sarah box is too much imo. i will be happy with 1 actually. tbn, potions, friend finders, anvils  repairs and brooms are considered to be the lower tier items that people will be happy to get and can be given out in larger quantities while those tempering gems /nates/ w/g/ wgev /amethyst /store more permits/ boxes should only be given out in moderation. for example, they can be made exchangeable with 4-6 sarah tix for 1.
The class imbalance is drastic. this is caused mainly by attribute over-exceeding its correct limit. the only solution now is to alter skill formulas which i believe is difficult to do so.  skill rework or adding more new skills can only be part of your  imagination. 


Excuse me? I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you (long night of studying) or if you actually said what I think you said about me, but no, that's absolutely not true. I do not "hoard lvl 300+ equips" in any sense of the word. The ones I have I either plan on using or selling. I don't really have a ton for reasons I mentioned in my first post. There might be people who do hoard them, but that's most defining tell not me.

Yes, I'll be the first to admit it. I'm a self-serving, exploitative, cunning capitalist who'll profit from any loss I can force your business to incur, but that's really just how this works. If it were possible for everyone to profit, I'd love to see that, but the sad reality is that intelligence is what sets apart those who are rich and those who are poor. No one ever likes to hear this in-game or in real life, but if you have any intention of trying to work through these economic issues, then listen up. Those who have the money are those who were smart enough to make it and keep it. That's a pretty simple sentence, right? Well it also implies the opposite; that those who are not smart don't have money, and did not manage to keep it. This is the basis of a capitalist economic system, and it applies everywhere. (Of course there are a handful of exceptions, but when that's compared to millions of non-exceptions, well..you know..) Now I know that none of us want our toes stepped on, but if you're poor, there's a reason for it. Let's say you're just starting out, you're a 15 year old kid with no job, your parents won't give you money to donate, but you do have lots of time to play the game. Someone like that is either going to invest their time they're putting in to the game wisely or not. They'll either seek the advice of players who're more experienced and try to move forward and start building up a base of contacts and capital, or they'll flounder and stay at the bottom. I've never turned someone down when they're asking for advice. There are plenty of people like that here on the forum and in-game. It's not like we won't help new players, it's that they don't ask. I've been known to give 5 million galders away to a new and struggling player just because they actually asked me for help. Now, I'm smart enough to realize that it's pointless to give anything to someone who's in Mega screaming "OMGGG.PLS GIVE ME MONIE. IM PORRR!!!!!!" Because I know they'll waste it. But for someone who genuinely wants help, I always give them something. It's not always money, or equips. Sometimes it's just advice, but a lot of the time, that's all they really need to get started. This economy and my explanation may seem messed up to some people, but the hard truth is that intelligence is king. If you aren't intelligent, then become so, or be left in the dust. No one has any right to complain about the economy until they've exhausted all of their resources (contacts, not finances). If you don't put forth the effort to learn, I'll trick you and put you in a financial hole any chance I get. I'm not here to play with a handicap so that other people can waste their money. This economy is a profit from loss marketplace, meaning your loss is my profit, and vice versa.

#15
Aran

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You people really love to write very long, don't you? 

 

Lol. 

 

I will read them when I have a bit more time.

 

Or not.

 

I want suggestions on how to keep this server operating by having enough revenue to keep it + how to get new players, if possible.



#16
fate0023

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In my ideal trickster, all the consumables such as elixirs, nates, powders. etc would be attainable every other patch but be much harder to get than just in every other drilled box. I don't mind that we get free stuff from events but not everyone should be able to get hundreds upon thousands of such items. It really does drive down the demand for the consumables. Take this current event for example. Everyone will have hundreds of Nate's bottles by the end of the event which probably means that there will be no market at all for Nates in the next few months. I agree with your fear that it would also mean less donations. In my opinion, a good amount of the higher class of elite players are often times the people who exploit events and afk drilling the most. When you are able to have multiple drillers farming profitable commodities for you, you can often times just sell those items once events are over and in the ensuing months. My point in all this is probably this : Those with the means to sustain their upkeep in this game are usually the ones that need it the least.

In my ideal trickster, there's no such thing called myshop lol. :D



#17
Ericc

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I don't have 100s of elixirs 

 

I think it makes sense to have 100s of things like Repair Powders and Anvils since those go QUICK

 

 

 

Attr makes everything so fuxxxxx easy, people can hit up 1 million

If you're a Power or Dark Lord

 

Class imbalance was a thing before PlayTrickster



#18
camaragustavo

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drill events needs to be limited to once every 3months, just for having a refreshing afk month.

ohh and drill events should almost always be only in cherry blossom map, it saves most players the trouble of navigating through a nest of people.

 

I guess this should be a nice way to make things different and not causing any harmfull effect on the server. 

 

 

In my ideal trickster, all the consumables such as elixirs, nates, powders. etc would be attainable every other patch but be much harder to get than just in every other drilled box. I don't mind that we get free stuff from events but not everyone should be able to get hundreds upon thousands of such items. It really does drive down the demand for the consumables. Take this current event for example. Everyone will have hundreds of Nate's bottles by the end of the event which probably means that there will be no market at all for Nates in the next few months.

 

And THIS! Make it a bit harder to get elixirs/nate/repair/etc and make them come in like only 1, not in a 3x pack.

 

Events should be something to HELP us all. Not give us EVERYTHING we need. 



#19
camaragustavo

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If you're a Power or Dark Lord

 

Class imbalance was a thing before PlayTrickster

 

Well, im not sure where u have been hanging around but I know tons of chars that dont even use their weapon type. So, yea, u dont need to be a power or a dark lord



#20
asnoobasme

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tl;dr


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